1994 900S V6 Timing setup
03-13-2009, 06:14 PM
#1
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1994 900S V6 Timing setup
So my lovely Saab died on me a bit ago, after a few months with engine squeak and a trip to the Saab dealer for maintenance. The lower main tensioner pulley...-well I don't know what it did but its pretty busted-...when I was driving it, which killed the engine. Now my dad and I are working on it, and just got a replacement kit, which includes the timing belt, two main tensioner pulleys (with the bracket they attach to) and the third tensioner pulley thats way the heck at the bottom of the engine. We took the old timing belt off and all the pulleys, but we didn't make sure that the crankshaft and camshaft notches lined up with those on the engine.
Which brings me to my question: Which camshaft notch is supposed to line up with the notch on the engine? The instructions that came with the kit only show one notch on each (not the two that are on the end of each camshaft), and we can't find a manual for the V6 engine...
Any help you can offer would be appriciated, about this or any other things we should know before continuing this endeavor^^
Which brings me to my question: Which camshaft notch is supposed to line up with the notch on the engine? The instructions that came with the kit only show one notch on each (not the two that are on the end of each camshaft), and we can't find a manual for the V6 engine...
Any help you can offer would be appriciated, about this or any other things we should know before continuing this endeavor^^
03-14-2009, 02:33 PM
#3
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Ok, here's what it looked like a few days ago, before we replaced the pulleys. You can't really see all the notches, but we've moved them since then so I didn't think that mattered too much.
Here is a diagram we found online. This is how we have the camshafts set right now
Hope this helped, if not I can always take more pix.
Here is a diagram we found online. This is how we have the camshafts set right now
Hope this helped, if not I can always take more pix.
03-17-2009, 07:44 PM
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Hmm, so we got the belt back on and put the rest of stuff back where it belongs and fired it up. It turns over, but that's it. So we checked the compression in two of the chambers and wouldn't you know it? There was none.
So now my dad thinks that the valves got messed up either when the pulley broke at the start, or he might have damaged them when he manually turned the camshafts individually.
The next step we're going to take is to take the heads off and look at the valves, and if they are messed up we'll ship it off to get repaired somewhere.
Does that sound like a good course of action?
So now my dad thinks that the valves got messed up either when the pulley broke at the start, or he might have damaged them when he manually turned the camshafts individually.
The next step we're going to take is to take the heads off and look at the valves, and if they are messed up we'll ship it off to get repaired somewhere.
Does that sound like a good course of action?
03-18-2009, 10:44 AM
#7
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That almost always happens with the V6's. Luckily most of the times there's no damage to the head itself. New valves are cheap at www.eeuroparts.com. I would try replacing the damaged valves first, but pay attention for piston damage too.
03-19-2009, 03:34 PM
#8
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Geoff,
Looks like you are in for a valve job and your going to have to pull the heads where the low compression is located, pull the cam covers and look for the vavle(s) that are stuck down, the cam followers will be far away from the face of the camshaft on the ones that are. Then you can tell how many of them are bent, this will give you a rough idea on parts cost.
Rotos tip about checking for other damage is a good one , and make sure to give the valve seats a good looking over, they are press fitted into the head and can be knocked loose when the bent vale makes contact. Chances are you will find corresponding "smiley faces" on the pistons where the bent valve contacted the surface, sometimes these can be severe enough to "pinch" the top ring on the piston and cause some sealing problems, as in low compression.
The trick here is to find a good auto engine machinist to go over the damage, and tell you which parts need to be replaced, or repaired.
On your timing belt installation drawing, the crank shaft timing mark is not visible , you need to make sure the crank has the #1 piston at TDC, when the rest of the marks are aligned. The V six can have the crank mark in position but the #1 cylinder may not be at TDC. But when you you remove the heads, it will be easy enough for you to bing # 1 up to TDC. The 4 cams will be a little tricky to hold into position, but don't settle for any mis-alignment , even though it may not bend the valves, it will effect performance, and cause you to do the job over.
Just a few tips , from someone that has made those mistakes
in the past!
Geoff, put a new water pump on while you got it apart it will save you$$$$ down the road!
Looks like you are in for a valve job and your going to have to pull the heads where the low compression is located, pull the cam covers and look for the vavle(s) that are stuck down, the cam followers will be far away from the face of the camshaft on the ones that are. Then you can tell how many of them are bent, this will give you a rough idea on parts cost.
Rotos tip about checking for other damage is a good one , and make sure to give the valve seats a good looking over, they are press fitted into the head and can be knocked loose when the bent vale makes contact. Chances are you will find corresponding "smiley faces" on the pistons where the bent valve contacted the surface, sometimes these can be severe enough to "pinch" the top ring on the piston and cause some sealing problems, as in low compression.
The trick here is to find a good auto engine machinist to go over the damage, and tell you which parts need to be replaced, or repaired.
On your timing belt installation drawing, the crank shaft timing mark is not visible , you need to make sure the crank has the #1 piston at TDC, when the rest of the marks are aligned. The V six can have the crank mark in position but the #1 cylinder may not be at TDC. But when you you remove the heads, it will be easy enough for you to bing # 1 up to TDC. The 4 cams will be a little tricky to hold into position, but don't settle for any mis-alignment , even though it may not bend the valves, it will effect performance, and cause you to do the job over.
Just a few tips , from someone that has made those mistakes
in the past!Geoff, put a new water pump on while you got it apart it will save you$$$$ down the road!
Last edited by dagger dog; 03-19-2009 at 03:41 PM.
03-27-2009, 08:00 PM
#9
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Thnx for all the tips and advice. Sure enough, all the valves are bent, and all the pistons have an indentation on the surface. Is there any way that I can tell if they have been damaged enough to warrant repair, besides taking them off? I'll post some pix so you can see some of what I'm talking about.
We're considering getting new head from a junkyard-kind'a place instead of having all the valves and lifters replaced, since the estimate was about $1200 for parts alone, and another $200-300 per head to fix any damage that may have been done... Should we have any concerns about used heads?
Thanks once again))) ^_^
We're considering getting new head from a junkyard-kind'a place instead of having all the valves and lifters replaced, since the estimate was about $1200 for parts alone, and another $200-300 per head to fix any damage that may have been done... Should we have any concerns about used heads?
Thanks once again))) ^_^
03-28-2009, 12:14 AM
#10
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mill the heads about .001 to get them straight. Now I don't know where you were getting you price estimate for parts and why you are replacing ALL the lifters. There's no way all valves and lifters were damaged. I'd say there's about $500-600 in parts there if you don't go through a dealer. The pistons though...hard to tell.